I flip through my favorites, longing for science and knowledge and I get this:
Joyce Meyer Ministries has a God-ordained mandate to impact the world. We are called to present the Gospel to the lost, disciple nations, feed the hungry, clothe the poor, minister to the elderly, widows and orphans, visit prisoners and reach out to people of all ages and in all walks of life. God requires that we teach people how to apply biblical truth in every facet of their lives, and encourage Christians to influence every aspect of the world around them.Hot damn. WTF?
...
Our goal is to reach every nation, every city, every day with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Immediately, I thought it was the evil doing of Time Warner Cable, the monopoly moneybags pimp! So I called. I had to go from general call center to customer service to technical support to find out that it's not the necessarily evil provider of cable, but the Discovery Channel itself that is the woman of ill-repute, la bête du jambon, who is selling it's air time and spending early mornings whoring out the jesus junk to millions of science-seeking viewers.
Hold on. Perhaps the myrmidons of the Time Warner RoadRunner had infiltrated the tech support office and were feeding me misinformation. But there it was, right on Discovery Channel's FAQs:
Why do I get infomercials instead of programming?Why is this a bad thing?
During certain late night hours of each day (for example, 3 a.m. to 9 a.m. ET/PT for Discovery Channel), some of the Discovery Networks may contain paid programming or infomercials. Please go to the "TV Schedules" on our website to see the specific programming schedules for your favorite Discovery Networks.
Joyce on evolution:
I encourage you not to swallow every story you see, hear or read about man’s origins. Check things out for yourself…do some research on the subject of creation so that your foundation of faith in God is sound, secure and immovable.
Whether it's Time Warner or Discovery, putting someone who disregards science and the scientific method on the television, it is not appropriate. Joyce Meyer does not belong on the Discovery Channel, just like "intelligent design" does not belong in the science classroom.
Feel free to visit Discovery's Viewer Relations page and kindly explain it to them.
UPDATE:
Here's my letter:
Why, in the name of all things science, would The Discovery Channel sell time to Joyce Meyer Ministries? Her money may be as green as everyone else's, but her science is not. The "Ministries" part of it should have given that away. If you are still unsure, please visit http://utteroutrage.blogspot.com/2007/06/christ-on-bun-joyce-meyer-discovery.html, as I have outlined the mess of anti-science inherent in the poor judgment I have observed. I am not anti-religion, but when a science channel pimps their time to an anti-science organization, it is a disgrace to all things reasonable.Asshats.
Thanks for your time,
Ricky Shambles
[In reference to a check box labeled "Would you like us to use your e-mail address for Marketing Promotions" :]
p.s. "Would you like us to use your e-mail address for Marketing Promotions" is not a question without the "?" and does not indicate whether checking the box would imply a "yes" or "no" answer, should anyone actually perceive it as such.
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26 comments:
get over yourself, there are far more people who would like to Joyce meyer on discover chanel than you not wanting to see her. she is impacting and changing the world, how about you?
"would like to Joyce meyer on discover chanel..."
I prefer my science without religious zealotry and my trolls with basic understanding of at least one language. But thanks for the comment!
Atheists and non believers are so so arrogant. you go on and on about free speech and then blast off in expletives when you see a Christian on your sacred science channel. Really pathetic. Instead of getting up in arms about a show that you presume has no place on Discovery Channel, why don't you use your brain, time and talent to actually study out some of the things you think are science fact and see just how true they actually are. It takes more faith to believe in the theory of evolution than in the God of the Bible and Intelligent Design. It's called a theory for a reason. There are many scientists out who thoroughly dispute evolution and not all of them are Christians. Seriously, take a look at it, study it out and maybe one day you might actually be grateful you saw Joyce Meyer and that what she had to say was more true than anything else you ever saw on that channel. Check out the book "Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. It's an easy read, very informative and a good introduction to not automatically believing the junk they feed in public schools and have the nerve to call education. A good website to check would also be s8nt.com. People don't want to believe in a Creator because they don't want to believe that there is a God that we are accountable to. But the evidence is all around us. Open your eyes and see.
...so backwards...head hurts...
charlene,
I'm not an atheist, but as far as "non-believer," would that be as broad as non-Christian, or, as evidenced in your projected beliefs, are we decrying anyone who's not on the evangelical, fundamentalist boxcar to crazy?
I've got some of that fancy college learnin' when it comes to evolution, not just the "public school" kind, and if you do your research and reading, it's quite compelling.
As for evolution being just a theory: it is. But you should look up theory again. Gravity is also a theory, but somehow humanistic absurdities like yourself don't just float away...
Yes, by non believer I did mean someone who isn't Christian ie, someone who has not put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation.
Sarcasm is a defense mechanism. Did you respond to this before even taking a look at the book I mentioned or the website?
Yes gravity is a theory. Even Newton himself explained that he had problems with his own theory, but could not figure them out because he wasn't a good enough mathematician. This further illustrates the point I was making. The world wasn't flat just because everyone used to think that it was. We don't come from monkeys, just because that is what is taught in science books. "Human absurdities" don't float through the air, we walk on the ground. The "Law" of gravity is the accepted reason by the majority.
You are incorrect in your assumption that I am backwards and/or have not done any reading or research. You assume this because we do not share the same conclusion. The "compelling" evidence for evolution is made up of some random bones that have been pieced together to support a theory. Something that is true speaks for itself, it doesn't need any support, just an earnest examination of the evidence.
So this is the thing, Rick: I am sure that you are familiar with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." Conventional evolution teaches that God is not responsible for man's existence, that we and everything around us is simply the product of nature taking it's course and progressing logically higher and higher. I will not here, go into all the flaws and untruths behind this statement, but I will state the damage this lie inflicts. "If we are not created, then there is no creator. If there is no creator, then I have to answer to no one and can live as I please, because I am my own authority. This is a very appealing viewpoint, but then sin and error is always appealing. That doesn't change the fact that it is error. Jesus says in this same famous chapter "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." John 3:19
But, if you don't believe in the God of the Bible, why would you ever believe anything Jesus said? You wouldn't. If your beliefs are so strong, they won't fall apart under examination, so again please take a look at what I am saying and use your mind to seek, truly seek God, instead of simple name calling and sarcasm.
Forgive me if I was offensive to you. It is the way of the world to be rude and curt to get your point across. This is not my Father's way: "But in your hearts, set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," I Peter 3:15. Please just consider what I am saying. Has anyone ever really shared the Gospel with you?
BTW, what is a humanistic absurdity? : )
charlene, I do see what you are saying, and name-calling does not get us anywhere in debate. Thank you for continuing the conversation.
As far as your accusation about the book "Case for a Creator" is concerned, you are correct: I did not even check it out, and in all fairness to this issue have just placed an order with Amazon so I may read it.
Also in all fairness, the theory of evolution is not just a bunch of random bones; when it comes to human evolution, yes, there are holes (the "missing link"), but those can be filled in with evidence we can see every day in other venues.
Darwin did not randomly and irreverently come up with the idea; he put together his scientific data and, troubled with the religious implications, toiled over proofs for 20 years before publishing The Origin of Species.
We do not see "survival of the fittest" in any modernized country today because it does not exist; for the most part, we have cures for diseases, drugs for symptoms, prosthetics for amputees, and no natural predators in our urban, suburban, or rural strongholds.
Allow me to appeal to your sense of research in the book that sold me on the reality of evolution, as it existed in the past for us, and as it exists today for most of the animal kingdom: The Beak of the Finch: A Story of Evolution in Our Time. You can get it used for less than $5 on Amazon (where the link goes). It is an easy read, chronicling the 20 years Peter and Rosemary Grant spent tracking generations of finches in the Galapagos, showing how pointy or stout beaks dictate survival and change subsequent generations to survive or fail to pass their genes on to the next generation. Evolution in this microcosm is fast and immediate and a window into our past.
I would also suggest The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
I do believe that one day, as long as we don't blow ourselves into oblivion, we will see the merging of God and science, probably in advanced physics.
Unfortunately, I am not - and will never be - a Biblical literalist. For me, it is a book with a history like any other form of myth or folklore: Confucius gave us the Golden Rule in the Analects 500 years before Christ was born; the Epic of Gilgamesh tells us of a garden and flood well before Jewish history begins. But like Confucius or Buddha, Jesus had an enormous cache of wisdom to relay to us. And in that I believe we can all be Christ-like.
I apologize for the name-calling; it makes for good reading, but not good debate. And I welcome further comments. If you'd like to continue this debate in earnest, I think we have things to teach each other. If you prefer it not be "out on the web," as my contact information says, you can hit me up at rickyshambles at gmail dot com.
I am very pleased to continue our conversation! I would prefer to continue in this vein as I would like others to perhaps be edified by this.
Let me first say that I am not against natural selection as in micro evolution. Adaptation and "special" (i don't know if this is a real word, but i mean of or pertaining to species, not special as in special occasion)variety are very evident. I do not however, believe in macro-evolution ie natural selection being the ORIGIN of the life.
I have checked out "The Beak of a Finch" from my local library. I will read it and then give you my thoughts on it, as well as address some of the other points you made in your last post.
Give me about a week or so...
: )
Ricky, Now that you have recieved you 15 min of fame, Don't u think it would be wise to get informed about God and if Joyce Meyers is the only one who cares to share with the world her knowledge of the Bible. I would rather be ready for the coming of Christ,and not be one of the many who didn't care. Read the bible for yourself. Joyce Meyers and Husband Dave care for us even the people of different countries..What is wrong with showing respect to your fellow neighbor.All Joyce asks for is to follow your heart and have faith.I know I feel safe knowing that He is watching over us and not man..Man doesn't help pay my mortage..But with Faith and Prayer and commitment to God I have no fear of what will happen because I know that God only gives us what we can handle, And if there is nothing you can do about a situation why worry it only steals your peace and that is the devils doing so don't let him win by worring. Let go and give your worrys and problems to God.
Anon,
Thank you. I'm quite informed about God. And yet I don't find evidence of his existence through fables like the Bible all that compelling. Unless, of course, he's a schizophrenic 10-year old.
And the "God only gives us what we can handle" argument is foolishness. If it's good, he's rewarding us; if it's bad, he's testing us; if we die, he needs us in heaven. Children have a better understanding of logic than that.
Thanks for the comment!
Holy Amen there Kelly!
Are we related?
Worst on the agnostics/atheists is that proving a negative never works.
Science will probably never prove a God either since the history of science is simply to explain things that are NOT God. As it has been since the beginning and will continue to be, world without end until it gets hit by a giant-ass asteroid.
Amen.
Coming in late to this argument, but it's relevant nonetheless. Just saw the Discovery Channel's Joyce Meyer paid-programming this morning, Feb 19 2010, and thought the very same thing... "on a science channel?"
Charlene is one of many who have invested so much time in the belief of a god that they can't fathom a world without- like a security blanket. "It must be true, it must, it must, it just must! [or I've wasted a ton of time, oops]"
Truth is, the theory in theory of evolution is the **scientific** definition of theory. Read: evolution is a fact backed by peer-review, corroborating methods and independent testing. As soon as someone discounts evolution as "some random bones that have been pieced together", it is quite evident that they know very little about evolution.
Every person is born by default as an atheist. It is culture and parental indoctrination that infects us with the mythical stories found in religion all wrapped up in sugary warmth and presented by car-sales(wo)men with a smile.
An intelligent departure from atheism is agnosticism via education and sound critical thinking. These people will not make the conclusion that there isn't a god. But, they can assert that it is very unlikely there is a god. Atheists that shout "there is no god" may seem arrogant, but it's it incomparably more arrogant of a theist to exclaim "Thank you God for bestowing upon me great skills and talent (and not on everyone else I'm speaking to)". I am quite proud of my accomplishments and attribute my success to hard work and determination. I don't have to cherry-pick the bible to get my morals and guidance.
Evolution says nothing about a creator. In fact, any good scientist must extend the possibility that some god did start all life and put evolution in motion with the goal of bringing about humans. Again, it is highly improbable that this god is the personal god of the bible that listens to everyone's thoughts, performs private unverifiable miracles, allows (or causes) recent earthquakes and tsunamis killing half a million people, brings children into this world with severe birth defects...
The Discovery Channel is no place for the delusional material shared by Joyce Meyer regardless of how much anyone wants to believe it. The infomercials about blenders and workout routines are bad enough.
Thanks anon! Great insight and always good to bump the post with another comment. Have a great weekend!
So, I know this conversation is really old, but I stumbled upon it while looking for something else, and I just had to get this out, even if no one is reading it.
Why does this creation vs. evolution debate even exist? I happen to love Jesus AND the Discovery channel. I have a Joyce Meyer book sitting on my stack of National Geographic magazines right now, and I don't think this is a conflict of interests.
Let me explain . . . the book of Genesis was written at a time when the human race was yet young and undeveloped in science. When parents try to explain to a child where babies come from, we tell them the truth, but leave out a lot of details, and use metaphors so that they can understand. Of course, when they get older, we expect them to grasp a more complex explanation. So it is, I believe, with the biblical account of our origin. I would rather not view God as a sort of Disney wizard but rather an infinitely patient metaphysical mastermind who could have orchestrated evolution in a way we cannot entirely understand.
In closing, I like you, Ricky. Even though you are kind of a sass master. I'm sorry that Christians have made such a big deal out of petty issues like evolution instead of concerning themselves with loving their neighbors and caring for the poor (which, by the way, is the actual message). I guess I would like to make peace, but unfortunately, not everyone does.
Sooo . . . "Unwittingly" implies that I am accidentally right, without knowing any of the facts? I am not disagreeing with any of your science, Kelly. This was my point. Maybe you think I am some home-schooled ignorant extremist, but I have studied evolution. Everyone does in public school. I am not one who thinks that scientific research should be banned from education. On the contrary, I think it is vital.
So the only thing we disagree on is that a person can believe in science and God. Of course science cannot prove the existence of God, but it also cannot explain the existence of matter, only how it evolved. So we are left with the choice of believing in some kind of creator or just keeping the question mark. I actually have a lot of respect for atheists. It just isn't my stance. What is it about my stance that offends you so much?
I'd like to thank Kelly and Anon for doing what I love seeing most in my comments - genuine discussion. Thanks!
This is a really good site post, im delighted I came across it. Ill be back down the track to check out other posts that
I have to side squarely with Ricky on this one. Would you really expect to see and infomercial for a Richard Dawkin's book on a religious network? There would be uproar from anyone religious to this affront.
Joyce Meyer still going strong on Discovery in summer of 2011....shame on the Discovery Channel. Religion is Business.
nelson- Thanks!
Jerry- I know. Money over science and everything else. Maybe a tweet will help...
I am so happy that I found this page, thank you Rick. I guess I haven't caught the discovery this early and I must say I was completely outraged. Discovery is a channel revolving around science. Although there may be "Christian" scientists, which I still think is a sham. Like Nelson has pointed out, they would not allow a program about evolution to air on a Christian channel. I am boycotting the Discovery channel, which is ashame it used to be my favorite channel. And to whoever said Atheists and non-believers are idiots, screw you. It's the Christians who are truly idiots, they believe in fairy tales written long ago and translated so many times by the corrupt higher religious constituents. Its just like the grapevine game, one sentence will end up perverted after being retold over and over again. Make believe is for immature children. I am a believer, in science, that which I can see. God is just a bedtime story. Show me proof and I'll believe.
I agree with Tara, Nelson and Ricky. Did anyone else notice the first punch was thrown by a Christian (pass no judgement my a**. "Atheists and non believers are so arrogant." Then going on to say they're also pathetic, dim witted ("why don't you use your brain?") The only real issue here is that a religious show not pertaining to anything scientific has no real place on the discovery channel. Much like religion in schools, we have worked hard for freedom of choice, for everyone. Everyone. God is about acceptance and love, and the way Charlene attacked was truly arrogant. I am a believer in science and God, but my God passes no judgment and stands by the free will bestowed upon us all.
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